[mistergib]

There are already a number of us, that have this "normal" piston slap
noise upon cold start. I figure that if I could get your name, location,
and email address, and maybe your phone number...then, I will
tactfully and respectfully contact the SCION Technical Representative
and see if after I inform him of this problem, that maybe we will get
them to look in to this problem.

Whatchathink?? If you think this is a bad idea, give me your ideas.

 

[Gunner]

mistergib, good to see you onboard with this idea. I gave a copy of the thread with Dave 777's experience to my Service Manager. That didn't convince them of our concerns and they didn't show much interest in digging any deeper into my complaint. TYPICAL. Hopefully, others will be able to talk with Jose at Scion and hopefully he won't be shot down by his superiors if he attempts to bring more interest into this common complaint. Scion Customer Service sent me a survey on my experience with my complaint process. In closing the survey question portion I was offered to add my comments. My last comment to Scion was I felt it was a mistake to purchase the iQ and I would prefer Scion to buy the car back.

 

[Gunner]

The service manager commented that all is well because the iQ has a 5 year power train warranty. Well, that does nothing to alleviate my concern for what's happening NOW. The warranty is not the "warm blanket" i want to have while waiting for my iQ to leave me stranded somewhere.

 

[mistergib]

(This is a duplicate post that I posted in the Engine thread below)
The Service Manager, if I remember correctly, because this has been going on for such a long time, made
the offer to bring a Service Tech in if I wanted. After this last comparison where we cold started an iQ from
the dealers lot on a cold morning, and it was quiet-no piston slap at all, and I told the Service Manager that
my iQ in contrast really clatters.......this is when I took him up on his offer for the Toyota Tech to come in.

So, I'm scheduled with the Toyota Tech on the 26th..... Thru-out this whole ordeal, I have never failed to
complement this Service Manager for all his help and concern..... Like Dave said, its a win-win deal for the
dealership too, so your dealership is not against you, they are just a required step in getting the problem
resolved thru Toyota. The Service Manager is tasked with insuring that your problem is valid and warrants the Toyota Tech coming in for assessment. My Service Manager has been really congenial and helpful. He did state at one time that the piston slap probably would not cause a future, more serious problem, I just didn't want to take that chance with the amount of noise mine makes now. I also believe that he was stating then what Toyotas general position is, which is also probably his responsibility to do. That aside, he has been pleasant to work with.
So, be nice....ya get more flies with honey than with vinegar.

 

[mistergib]

*This posting is concerning the piston slap issue and NOT the starter noise issue*

Just got back from the dealership and my meeting with the Service Manager and the
Toyota Rep. I had left my car there last night, the temperature overnight reached down
into single digits which is exactly what I hoped for. At about 8:30 this morning, we started
my car up and the tapping/clatter was very loud until the car warmed up and the noise
started going away until it was completely gone, as usual.
During this time, the Toyota Rep, once he heard it, asked for a stethoscope to try to pin-point
where it was coming from because he thought it sounded like something in the top of the
motor more-so than the bottom, where the piston slap would normally come from. He said
that it could still be piston slap but wanted to first check the shimming of the lifters on the
top side just in case wrong shimming could be the problem, he just wasn't sure but wanted
to try the easiest "fix" first. If this is not my problem, then he talked about doing what they
originally were doing on Dave's car by replacing the oil jet nozzles. I looked back and just
realized that Dave had his car replaced before they finished this "nozzle" fix because of the
30-day lemon law repair limit. So whether that fixed his clatter/tapping problem or not was
never stated? So, this could be the fix rather than a new short block?
My Toyota Rep stated that the oil nozzle problem existed on iQ's manufactured prior to
3/2012, mine was made in 2/2012....iQ's after the 3/2012 date do not have the oil nozzle
problem. Then.... if that doesn't fix the problem, then maybe the new short block would be
tried, I think-but I don't know, time will tell?

I'm just really thankful to them that they recognize that something isn't right and are trying
to fix it...I will keep you all posted as to the progress....

 

[Airbagged]

Forged pistons have a tendency to make what you would call a slapping sound when they are warming up, it's do to the expansion of the aluminum. I have used them in race engines before and it was quite typical to hear a little slapping noise upon warm up. I have not really done the research yet on the actual components of our engine, but it may be that our engines are being equipped with forged pistons. Forged pistons combined with our high compression ratio would completely explain the noise that you are describing upon warm up. I think my iq has its very own distinctive engine sound, it sounds very different from the engine in some of my other cars. To me it almost sounds like a little Diesel engine, but that's just my opinion. If anyone knows what kind of pistons our engines are using please chime in, I think this may explain a lot of the strange noises people are referring to.

 

[mistergib]

Trust me, the ones of us experiencing this problem have been through all the reasons
for the piston slap, forged pistons, aluminum skirts, expansion as the motor warms up,
etc.. The noises we are getting are not happening on all iQ's, actually only on a few so
far. If this clatter noise was present on all IQ's, then I'd would write it off as being
characteristic of our motors but thats just not the case. On a real cold morning, my
motor almost sounds like its got a rod out of it when first starting it up.
Now the Toyota Tech Rep finally agrees that there is a problem, my car goes in the shop
this morning.....On this forum, there has been less than 10 of us having this problem out
of 800 registered owners.

 

[Airbagged]

That sucks mistergib, sorry you have to deal with that. I'm sure you will keep us all posted on what comes out of it.

best wishes,
Daniel

 

[mistergib]

Update: Today is Friday, yesterday they took the valve cover off and then today the
Toyota Tech Rep examined and found nothing amiss there. They will now put the top
end back together, park it outside again for the weekend, then Monday morning, they
will do another cold start and the Tech Rep will try to locate where the noise is
imanating from, and go from there.
I went down today and picked up the rental car they provided, so I do have wheels.
I'm a dummy, but I still think its going to be defective oil jet nozzles in the block or out
of spec cylinder bore(s)? I wish it had been as simple as something with the lifters, but,
it wasn't, so we keep on a-look'n.

Update: Its now Sunday, I drove by the dealerships fenced lot to ensure that they were
able to get my motor back together without a problem on Friday, and then park it outside
for the weekend so that the motor is nice and cold for their second test early Monday
morning...it was sitting outside waiting for Monday. Sure hope they find the problem, but
if they don't, it won't be for their lack of trying. I certainly can't complain, the customer
service has been impeccable.

 

[mistergib]

Update: Its Monday evening, 3/4/2013, the Service Manager just called and gave me an update as to what they tried today to assess what the cause of the motor noise is. They thought it might be cylinder #4, but it turned out it wasn't. They are sitting it outside again tonight so that it gets cold as they are going to try to locate it again tomorrow, after talking to Ron, the Toyota Tech Rep. Not sure what they will be checking tomorrow. To be continued.....

 

[mistergib]

Today is Wednesday, 3/6/2013: Just got the call from my Service Manager....the Toyota Tech Rep and him are now going to try changing out the oil jet nozzles in the block to see if that stops the piston slap. These nozzles are hard to come by and have to be ordered so I am picking my car up today and will take it back in when the parts arrive, maybe in about a week. If this doesn't fix the problem, then the only thing left is to replace the complete short block assembly. I'm not sure if they will do that or if that would be the point at which a possible buy-back process would would begin? At this point, I flat don't know??

 

[Airbagged]

Mistergib, another thing to mention to them is, if it had been an oiling issue all along that the damage is already done. If the parts had been moving around "slapping even" that they have already developed wear do to a lack of lubrication. Changing the jets now all of a sudden even if it fixes the problem leaves you with a well oiled damaged motor. What is wrong with these people? Have they no logical thinking process? All I can say is frustrating !!!

 

[mistergib]

Mistergib, another thing to mention to them is, if it had been an oiling issue all along that the damage is already done. If the parts had been moving around "slapping even" that they have already developed wear do to a lack of lubrication. Changing the jets now all of a sudden even if it fixes the problem leaves you with a well oiled damaged motor. What is wrong with these people? Have they no logical thinking process? All I can say is frustrating !!!

Already thought about that and already done that....I even mentioned that very thing this
morning when I picked up my car.....but thanks anyway. The Service Manager didn't know
how to respond to me. I stated that if it was the nozzles that was the problem and they
weren't lubricating the cylinders properly, then the damage is already done. He really didn't
have an answer for me.......I'm aware and I will keep bringing that to the attention of the,
Rep when I see him, I haven't had a face-to-face with the Rep since last week.

 

[DaveB-777]

Keep track of the total days in the shop. It's good they're being nice, as my dealer was, but after 80 days in the shop I was happy to have the process resolved with a new car. By now Scion/Toyota should know to start stocking the nozzles and short blocks here in the U.S.A.

 

[mistergib]

I have the car back now while the parts are ordered...the Toyota Tech Rep thinks my
problem is with those oil jet nozzles, (sound familiar?), since my cars manufacture date falls
within the known problem date for these nozzles, (prior to 3/2012).
I have requested a Buy-Back. I explained to him that if the piston slap problem is caused by
those nozzles, then that also means I have put almost 3700 miles on a motor that has had
and still has insufficient lubrication of the cylinders meaning that internal damage has already
occurred. So, by changing out the defective nozzles now might quiet the noise down a little,
but does nothing to eradicate the damage thats has already happened. This is just plain
logic. I'm now awaiting the Toyota Tech Rep's re-assessment and response to my situation....
Both my Service Manager and the Toyota Tech Rep have been very nice and very cooperative
which I really appreciate, so we'll see?

 

[Gunner]

mistergib, The next time you talk with the Toy Tech could you ask him how one can actually get in touch with a Toy Tech that understands the iQ noisy engine problem and if Toyota plans on sending notices out to not just the owners, but, to the dealerships. I'm not getting the same response or sense of concern from the two dealerships I've gone to and my iQ sounds like an old air compressor and seems to be getting louder. The dealers keep falling back on the assumption that nothing is wrong with the iQs till they hear from Toyota.

 

[bigapl]

Wish they would acknowledge the transmission noise on startup also

 

[mistergib]

mistergib, The next time you talk with the Toy Tech could you ask him how one can actually get in touch with a Toy Tech that understands the iQ noisy engine problem and if Toyota plans on sending notices out to not just the owners, but, to the dealerships. I'm not getting the same response or sense of concern from the two dealerships I've gone to and my iQ sounds like an old air compressor and seems to be getting louder. The dealers keep falling back on the assumption that nothing is wrong with the iQs till they hear from Toyota.

Think about it.....there is approx. 800 registered owners on this forum and only about 5 of
us have a problem....and if that problem is limited to IQ's made before 2/2012, that probably
reduces the number of occurrences even more, with this small percentage, they may never
send a notice to the owners, but just to the Toyota Tech Reps and maybe the service mgrs.?
So until its more prevalent, its up to us to contact the service manager and then he contact
the Toyota Tech Rep......the SM is our go-between to reach the Tech Rep.. Just keep taking
your car in and complaining about the noise until they do something...I never had that
problem, my service manager gave, and is still giving, good cutomer service. Good luck!

 

[mistergib]

Today is Tuesday, 3/12/2013, and my car is now back in the shop to have those
"problem" oil jet nozzles replaced in my motor and see if it eliminates or has any effect
on that piston slap/clatter that I've had forever. Hopefully I will have my car back by
Friday evening, or maybe Monday. Those nozzles are not supposed to be that hard
to change out. I'll let ya's know.....

 

[surfcitylocal]

Thanks for the update, looking forward to seeing what they find.