Engine Problems - Report Them Here

[Gunner]

mistergib, I am interested in your outcome. I also have this noise at startup. Took the iQ to the dealer. As expected, the service advisor said it's normal, but, with one iQ replaced and another having a short block replaced, I'm NOT convinced. I just shot an e-mail to Scion to see what they may have to say. Pretty sure they'll tell me to take it in. Just want to get some sort of paper trail going. I need a definitive answer before I'm comfortable with just letting it continue without doing anything.

[mistergib]

mistergib, I am interested in your outcome. I also have this noise at startup. Took the iQ to the dealer. As expected, the service advisor said it's normal, but, with one iQ replaced and another having a short block replaced, I'm NOT convinced. I just shot an e-mail to Scion to see what they may have to say. Pretty sure they'll tell me to take it in. Just want to get some sort of paper trail going. I need a definitive answer before I'm comfortable with just letting it continue without doing anything.

Sorry to say, so far that is my outcome.....I have sent the service manager another email
re-stating the severity of the so called "piston slap" and asking him to please reconsider and
do something about it. I informed him of what other dealerships have done which means they
thought the piston slap wasn't normal or they wouldn't have taken any action to resolve the
issue. I haven't received a return response as yet.
I did purchase a transferable extended warranty just in case something should break and the
dealership had never changed their "it's normal..." reasoning, so at least I protected myself as
best I could.
I will let you know the response I get from my latest email to the service manager, you keep
me abreast of your situation there too....who knows, maybe we will get some satisfaction, but
don't hold your breath. Good luck on your end.....

[Gunner]

Thank you, mistergib. I'll post up any response/action I receive from Dealership or Scion.

[mistergib]

Just received an email response from the Service Manager at my Toyota Dealership,
He said he will call Toyota Technical next week and inquire about any known concerns
with this issue and maybe will try a side by side test with mine and a brand new one
on the lot, on a cold morning and see how they compare. In other words, if the new
one sounds the same as mine, I(we) will probably be out of luck in having them to
resolve this issue....we'll see?
I'm sure that it really is piston slap because the colder my garage gets, the louder and
longer that "clatter" is. If we lived in Southern California, we would probably never
know we had it because the aluminum pistons would not have contracted as much in
the overnight warmer tempeatures. The temperature here has been getting down to
single digits at night lately, so it sounds like my motor is coming apart when I first
start it in the morning. I will say this though, after 4-5 minutes, the motor does quiet
down completely, (but it's just amazing how bad it sounds until it gets there).

[Gunner]

Just got off the phone with Scion Customer Service (1-866-707-2466). They're turning my concern over to a case manager. The more folks call about this problem...the more attention Scion should give to the complaint. Of course manufacturers know that it's cheaper to fix cars on a case by case basis than it is to do a total recall (if one should be warranted).

[DaveB-777]

So on December 6, 2012 I left my car at the local Toyota dealer to get an assessment of the low quality performance of my Bluetooth mic. The results of the dealers assessment is posted under the "ICE" threads. I also said to the service guy "as the weather has gotten colder, my car has gotten very noisey at startup, sounds like something is loose in the engine, I have to warm it up at idle for a couple of minutes cause I'm afraid it will blow apart if I just drive off right away". Today, December 28, the dealer still has my car. Toyota is sending a short block assembly (that is the lower part of the engine: block, crank, pistons and so on). They said the cylinder head is fine. I will get my car back sometime in January. They can't tell me what is wrong. The manager, whom I have known since 1998, doesn't know. He promises a full report later. All he could tell me was that Toyota wants the short block replaced.

RJG, it's now been more than 30 days, and I'm very curious to know if your car is back in your possession. In my case I had a clear Lemon Law vehicle, as it had been in the shop in excess of 30 days, which under Washington State law automatically meant it qualified. There was no debating or cajoling required to have Scion USA agree to replace the car.

I hope you read through this thread, and, more importantly, read the California Lemon Law booklet. If you decide to pursue that route, follow your warranty book to the letter and be polite and cooperative with your dealer. Remember, the dealer can be your ally in this, as they have little personally invested when the car is under warranty.

BTW, here is the exact quote from the California booklet: (3) The vehicle is out of service because of the repair of any number of problems by the manufacturer or its agents for a cumulative total of more than 30 days since delivery of the vehicle.


Good luck.

[mistergib]

Dave, How has your new iQ been doing now....any tapping noises on really cold mornings? How
many miles do you have on it by now?
I am still awaiting a call-back from my Service Manager to see if he found out anything from
Toyota Technical....and, when he wants to do a cold morning startup camparison between mine
and another new one from the lot. I have 3200 miles on mine now and the clatter seems to be
getting louder and lasting longer....but, it still goes completely away after its warmed up. I love
everything about this car but that....Hope yours continues to run quietly.

[DaveB-777]

Less than 1,000 miles and still quiet.

[mistergib]

My service manager just emailed me....the Toyota Technical rep will be there on 1/16 so
wanted me to bring mine in then.....BIG PROBLEM, my wife and I will be on a cruise during
some of that time frame.... I'm trying to get a reschedule date now?

[RJG]

RJG, it's now been more than 30 days, and I'm very curious to know if your car is back in your possession. In my case I had a clear Lemon Law vehicle, as it had been in the shop in excess of 30 days, which under Washington State law automatically meant it qualified. There was no debating or cajoling required to have Scion USA agree to replace the car.

I hope you read through this thread, and, more importantly, read the California Lemon Law booklet. If you decide to pursue that route, follow your warranty book to the letter and be polite and cooperative with your dealer. Remember, the dealer can be your ally in this, as they have little personally invested when the car is under warranty.

BTW, here is the exact quote from the California booklet: (3) The vehicle is out of service because of the repair of any number of problems by the manufacturer or its agents for a cumulative total of more than 30 days since delivery of the vehicle.


Good luck.

Dave, I don't know if you got the messages I sent you, but I did open up a claim with Toyota under the California Lemon law as soon as 30 days had passed. The dealer had the car for a total of 34 days. The dealer's service manager requested that I take possession of the car saying that he had no legal basis to hold it and no room to store it. The Retention Manager from Toyota's Los Angeles Regional Office said Toyota would not store the vehicle pending resolution of the matter because I hold legal title. I'm storing the car in my garage. It definitely has a lot more power with the new short block. Haven't done a cold start yet. With respect to the claim, the Retention Manager was polite but tried to convince me that the car was ok. I politely told her that I wasn't going to keep the car. She said she was going to review the matter and get back to me with a decision.

If one looks carefully at how Toyota handled the Prius problems a few years back, it seems that Toyota corporate culture lacks transparency when there is a defect problem. So it wouldn't surprise me if there were defects in a specific production run of iQ's and they were ignored and the cars continued through the distribution process. I'm leery of keeping the car because, while the motor may be fixed, another problem may arise with the electrical, transmission and so on. I'm not going to buy an extended warranty just because the manufacturer did a lousy job of assembling the car. The car is a Lemon and it will break down again in some way. I consider the motor rebuilt. I wouldn't mind a rebuilt engine in a used car or in a car I had worn out. But this is a new car with only 7,000 miles on it. Toyota's position is that it put completely "new" motor in my car. But my repair invoice clearly lists "short block" which means the mechanic used the old cylinder head and valves and all the old engine accessories. Nowhere is a new cylinder head listed in the parts inventory. If I sell the car later, I would have to disclose that the motor is rebuilt. The mechanic did not drop in a new and complete "crated" motor. The dealer's service rep was vague about what was wrong with the motor. First he said it was the timing chain. Later he said Toyota wanted a new short block put in just to be "thorough". I've used the dealership mechanics at Hollywood Toyota since 1998 and they have always been forthright and corrected any of their mistakes. I don't think they were able to figure out the problem and neither could the Toyota service rep. Will let you know what happens.

[mistergib]

RJG, at least you got them to do "something" and they are at least contemplating a
decision to replace the car..... All I have ever got was words indicating from the
beginning that this piston slap was normal. I am going to be getting together with
Toyota Technical in a couple of weeks....but I don't expect anything different to come
from him than whats already come from the Service Manager. Dave is the only one I
know of that has got total satifaction from this problem......I wish you luck!

[RJG]

I started the iQ this morning to move it to the side of the garage. Ambient tempeture was 60 degrees. There was barely the slightest mechanical noise for about 1 second and then the engine idled quietly. I now realize there should be no clattering at all during startup. Before the motor sounded as if it had a loose heat shield rattling under the engine compartment. Good luck on resolving your problem. The Toyota Technical person should be able to note there is a problem. I did not bring the car to the dealer service center until the service manager made an appointment with the Tech person.

[mistergib]

I started the iQ this morning to move it to the side of the garage. Ambient tempeture was 60 degrees. There was barely the slightest mechanical noise for about 1 second and then the engine idled quietly. I now realize there should be no clattering at all during startup. Before the motor sounded as if it had a loose heat shield rattling under the engine compartment. Good luck on resolving your problem. The Toyota Technical person should be able to note there is a problem. I did not bring the car to the dealer service center until the service manager made an appointment with the Tech person.

Not to cause any panic, but.....if it was 60 degrees here, I doubt I'd hear much with
mine either. It takes the colder temps to make it sound off like the motor is coming
apart.
Hmmmm....I guess if I moved to LA, that would "fix" my problem. I hope yours stays
away even in colder temps. I'll wait and see what the Tech says?

[DaveB-777]

RJG, sorry, I didn't get your messages, but I had to change names here due to a sign on issue.

I trust you sent your first letter to the Scion USA Torrance address in the warranty book. It took maybe 3 weeks or so for them to get back to me, and quickly the dealer said they'd find a replacement locally, which they did. I made the dealer's "Customer Service Representative" my main contact, and she worked well with me. Your dealer should have one too.

I agree that a partially rebuilt engine isn't "new." Personally, I think the car is otherwise good to go. In my case I had significant evidence that they too wanted to replace the short block, but couldn't get one, so went the route of replacing the oil nozzles. I have no idea if that worked, as I never drove the car after they did that. They did not charge me anything for the replacement car, even though I figured that, had I continued all the way through State arbitration I would have owed $432.12, based on mileage when the problem was first brought to their attention.

Good luck.

[Gunner]

Just got my '12 iQ back from dealer after they had it for 2 days. As I expected...they heard no noises. Scion customer service advises to get a second opinion from another dealer.